Discussion:
Question from weak Christian
(too old to reply)
Pastor Frank
2005-01-25 22:14:27 UTC
Permalink
Bob, I keep telling you: Post your atheism to atheist NGs and stay out
of our Christian NGs already, willya? I will post you over to some.

---------------------
I was raised Christian but one doubt keeps plaguing me. WHat does the
new
New Testament say will happen to the souls of people who died BEFORE
they
heard Christ's message? Millions of people lived and died on the
earth
before Christ performed his ministry.
If the gospels say that the only way to reach the Father is through
the
son
(by having faith in Jesus) then did all those ancient people end up in
Hell
just because they were born too early?
I know this might sound childishly simlistic,
YOU said it. Have you not concerned yourself with the thousands of other
religions, some current, some long since forgotten, along with all their
gods?
The Jesus story is a myth just as are the others just mentioned.
The soul is a nebulous word used by religionists to bolster their claim on
other people. If you can define a 'soul' I will try to help you solve
your
problem.
As for Hell that is another myth of religionists, no such place anymore
than
there is a heaven. We have the here and now, enjoy it to the full by
being
decent to other people and enjoy the way they are decent back to you.
Some
views on Heaven and Hell are given below.
I think this should be a little more comprehensible than Frank's rather
vague
reply! LOL
Bob
Humanist Brit.
Hong kong
"Hell is an outrage on humanity. When you tell me that your deity made you
in
his image, I reply that he must have been very ugly."
[Victor Hugo]
If watching people being tortured for all eternity is one of the
'delights' of
heaven, I want no part of it or any religion that teaches it.
[John Hachmann]
"I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has
a
will of the type of which we are conscious in ourselves. An individual who
should survive his
physical death is also beyond my comprehension; such notions are for the
fears
or absurd egoism of feeble souls."
[Albert Einstein]
but it bothers me. Any
replies pleasepost to this group. My email is not working.
vty
PeterHauer
You already know the answer, but you interpret exclusively (in
brackets)
instead of inclusively. The "son" is anyone who believes in His Father
who
is in heaven and such believers were around long before Christ appeared.
Christ is the only BEGOTTEN son of God, meaning He was God incarnate.
See
below
Pastor Frank
SONS OF GOD
Jesus in Jn:8:35-36: And the servant abideth not in the house for
but the Son abideth ever. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye
shall
be free indeed.
Jesus in Jn:15:15: Henceforth I call you not servants; for the
servant
knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all
things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
Jn:1:12: But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become
Rom:8:14: For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the
sons
of God.
Rom:8:19: For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for
the
manifestation of the sons of God.
Phil:2:15: That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God,
without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among
whom ye shine as lights in the world;
1Jn:3:1: Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon
us,
that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us
not, because it knew him not.
1Jn:3:2: Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet
appear
what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be
like
him; for we shall see him as he is.
Pope Rudraigh
2005-01-26 05:58:23 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 26 Jan 2005 06:14:27 +0800, "Pastor Frank"
Post by Pastor Frank
Bob, I keep telling you: Post your atheism to atheist NGs and stay out
of our Christian NGs already, willya? I will post you over to some.
Do you really think this does anything other than make you look like
more of an ass than you already do?
Post by Pastor Frank
---------------------
I was raised Christian but one doubt keeps plaguing me. WHat does the
new
New Testament say will happen to the souls of people who died BEFORE
they
heard Christ's message? Millions of people lived and died on the
earth
before Christ performed his ministry.
If the gospels say that the only way to reach the Father is through
the
son
(by having faith in Jesus) then did all those ancient people end up in
Hell
just because they were born too early?
I know this might sound childishly simlistic,
YOU said it. Have you not concerned yourself with the thousands of other
religions, some current, some long since forgotten, along with all their
gods?
The Jesus story is a myth just as are the others just mentioned.
The soul is a nebulous word used by religionists to bolster their claim on
other people. If you can define a 'soul' I will try to help you solve
your
problem.
As for Hell that is another myth of religionists, no such place anymore
than
there is a heaven. We have the here and now, enjoy it to the full by
being
decent to other people and enjoy the way they are decent back to you.
Some
views on Heaven and Hell are given below.
I think this should be a little more comprehensible than Frank's rather
vague
reply! LOL
Bob
Humanist Brit.
Hong kong
"Hell is an outrage on humanity. When you tell me that your deity made you
in
his image, I reply that he must have been very ugly."
[Victor Hugo]
If watching people being tortured for all eternity is one of the
'delights' of
heaven, I want no part of it or any religion that teaches it.
[John Hachmann]
"I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has
a
will of the type of which we are conscious in ourselves. An individual who
should survive his
physical death is also beyond my comprehension; such notions are for the
fears
or absurd egoism of feeble souls."
[Albert Einstein]
but it bothers me. Any
replies pleasepost to this group. My email is not working.
vty
PeterHauer
You already know the answer, but you interpret exclusively (in
brackets)
instead of inclusively. The "son" is anyone who believes in His Father
who
is in heaven and such believers were around long before Christ appeared.
Christ is the only BEGOTTEN son of God, meaning He was God incarnate.
See
below
Pastor Frank
SONS OF GOD
Jesus in Jn:8:35-36: And the servant abideth not in the house for
but the Son abideth ever. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye
shall
be free indeed.
Jesus in Jn:15:15: Henceforth I call you not servants; for the
servant
knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all
things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
Jn:1:12: But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become
Rom:8:14: For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the
sons
of God.
Rom:8:19: For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for
the
manifestation of the sons of God.
Phil:2:15: That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God,
without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among
whom ye shine as lights in the world;
1Jn:3:1: Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon
us,
that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us
not, because it knew him not.
1Jn:3:2: Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet
appear
what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be
like
him; for we shall see him as he is.
Pastor Frank
2005-01-26 17:17:28 UTC
Permalink
God is about love and hope, and you are about hate and only hate, for
you never yet told us what it is you support, believe in, care for etc.
etc.
only about what's wrong, false, lies, errors and inconsistent. God is
about
heaven and you are about hell. Yet you keep posting "wails", complaints
to
our pristine Christian NGs instead of atheist and hate groups. Why?
You preach to the sinners, to try and 'convert' them. I, however, stand
between
you and them, making certain they see just how silly your views are.
Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8.16) and love is always "silly",
yet profound. You have no "points" other than your hate for Christian
posters in their own Christian NGs. I will post you over to your hate groups
who will love having you.
2005-01-27 03:25:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Frank
God is about love and hope, and you are about hate and only hate, for
you never yet told us what it is you support, believe in, care for etc.
etc.
only about what's wrong, false, lies, errors and inconsistent. God is
about
heaven and you are about hell. Yet you keep posting "wails", complaints
to
our pristine Christian NGs instead of atheist and hate groups. Why?
You preach to the sinners, to try and 'convert' them. I, however, stand
between
you and them, making certain they see just how silly your views are.
Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8.16) and love is always "silly",
yet profound. You have no "points" other than your hate for Christian
posters in their own Christian NGs. I will post you over to your hate groups
who will love having you.
You said that it was possible to go to Heaven by being good. I pointed out your
supposed savior said "None come to the Father but through me."

You have no rebuttal. Your 'god' is happy to make people and toss them into
eternal damnation no matter how good they are.




------------------------------------------------------------------
"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of
the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to
drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a
parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can
always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have
to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for
lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials
------------------------------------------------------------------
Pastor Frank
2005-01-27 13:50:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by
Post by Pastor Frank
God is about love and hope, and you are about hate and only hate, for
you never yet told us what it is you support, believe in, care for etc.
etc.
only about what's wrong, false, lies, errors and inconsistent. God is
about
heaven and you are about hell. Yet you keep posting "wails", complaints
to
our pristine Christian NGs instead of atheist and hate groups. Why?
You preach to the sinners, to try and 'convert' them. I, however, stand
between
you and them, making certain they see just how silly your views are.
Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8.16) and love is always "silly",
yet profound. You have no "points" other than your hate for Christian
posters in their own Christian NGs. I will post you over to your hate groups
who will love having you.
You said that it was possible to go to Heaven by being good. I pointed out your
supposed savior said "None come to the Father but through me."
What else is "good" but Christ Jesus?
Post by
You have no rebuttal. Your 'god' is happy to make people and toss them into
eternal damnation no matter how good they are.
What gives you that idea? Are you cynical and paranoid? Jesus has the
answer!!!
2005-01-28 12:36:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by
Post by Pastor Frank
God is about love and hope, and you are about hate and only hate,
for
Post by
Post by Pastor Frank
you never yet told us what it is you support, believe in, care for
etc.
Post by
Post by Pastor Frank
etc.
only about what's wrong, false, lies, errors and inconsistent. God is
about
heaven and you are about hell. Yet you keep posting "wails",
complaints
Post by
Post by Pastor Frank
to
our pristine Christian NGs instead of atheist and hate groups. Why?
You preach to the sinners, to try and 'convert' them. I, however, stand
between
you and them, making certain they see just how silly your views are.
Our Christian "God is love" (1 John 4:8.16) and love is always
"silly",
Post by
Post by Pastor Frank
yet profound. You have no "points" other than your hate for Christian
posters in their own Christian NGs. I will post you over to your hate
groups
Post by
Post by Pastor Frank
who will love having you.
You said that it was possible to go to Heaven by being good. I pointed out
your
Post by
supposed savior said "None come to the Father but through me."
What else is "good" but Christ Jesus?
Glad you admit that your cult uses only one criteria for who doesn't get thrown
into fire for all eternity.
Post by
You have no rebuttal. Your 'god' is happy to make people and toss them
into
Post by
eternal damnation no matter how good they are.
What gives you that idea? Are you cynical and paranoid? Jesus has the
answer!!!
I like your logic--define 'good' as only the qaulity your cult requires for
membership, and--SURPRISE--if you don't join, you get tossed into hell for ever
and ever and ever.

One hell of a slick recruitment tool your peeps have for filling the collection
plate ;)





------------------------------------------------------------------
"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of
the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to
drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a
parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can
always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have
to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for
lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials
------------------------------------------------------------------
Pastor Frank
2005-01-29 13:30:01 UTC
Permalink
Your God is as fucked up as they come. And if he is "love" I am hoping to
get
some major doses of apathy from the freak.
Apparently your only purpose here is to trash and flame, so would you
kindly post your trash and flames to atheist and flame groups? Thanks. I
will help you find some you might like better than our pristine Christian
NGs.
unknown
2005-01-30 01:30:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pastor Frank
Your God is as fucked up as they come. And if he is "love" I am hoping to
get
some major doses of apathy from the freak.
Apparently your only purpose here is to trash and flame, so would you
kindly post your trash and flames to atheist and flame groups? Thanks. I
will help you find some you might like better than our pristine Christian
NGs.
And please don't sully our "pristine Satanic NG" with the Christian stuff.

Many thanks.

Regards,

Harry Lime
www.harrylime.biz
--
I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming
feature.....Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the
introduction of Christianity, have been burned, tortured, fined and
imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make half the
world fools and half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the
world. Thomas Jefferson
2005-01-30 04:18:26 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 17:30:20 -0800, "Harry Lime" <harrylime (at) harrylime
Post by unknown
Post by Pastor Frank
Your God is as fucked up as they come. And if he is "love" I am hoping to
get
some major doses of apathy from the freak.
Apparently your only purpose here is to trash and flame, so would you
kindly post your trash and flames to atheist and flame groups? Thanks. I
will help you find some you might like better than our pristine Christian
NGs.
And please don't sully our "pristine Satanic NG" with the Christian stuff.
Many thanks.
Regards,
Harry Lime
www.harrylime.biz
LOL!!!

I trimmed your groups from my response. No reason Satanic groups should be
forced to suffer hearing the idiocy of the Christian Dogma.




------------------------------------------------------------------
"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of
the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to
drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a
parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can
always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have
to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for
lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials
------------------------------------------------------------------
Pastor Frank
2005-02-01 21:55:13 UTC
Permalink
Original sin???
You do seem to have problems with philosophical constructs and that
is
why you are here to get explanations.
Oh God, I hear Peter Cottontail a coming down the bunny trial...
However that does not mean you have
to use prejudice and bad language, in other words trash and flame. There
are
lots of NGs that specialize in thrash and flames, but here in our
pristine
Christian NGs it's out of place. See below the meaning of "original
sin".
Pastor Frank
ORIGINAL SIN is being judgmental and opinionated about
who,
or what is good or evil. After eating the fruit (tasting the result) of
the
knowledge of good and evil, Adam and Eve made their first judgment: "It
is
shameful and evil to be seen naked in public". To this day most people in
the world still hold the same view, though it is completely illogical, as
well as a victimless crime.
Of course, this contradicts the Bible version of Original Sin, which is
why
Frank spliced his version in with the below Biblical quote. Please note
everybody: the above paragraph is not merely not associated with the
below--it
isn't even anywhere in the Bible.
Gen 3:22-23 And the Lord God said: Behold, the man is become as one
of
us, to know good from evil. And now, lest he put forth his hand, and take
also from the tree of life, and eat and live for ever, I will drive out
the
man from the garden of Eden, to till the land from which he was taken.
At least this is a quote. Of course, it is not about the doctrine of
Original
Sin, but is rather about God banishing Adam and Eve from the Garden of
Eden.
Original Sin is the Biblical concept that because Adam and Eve ate the
forbidden fruit, you, being one of their descendants, share in their sin,
and
are just as responsible as if you had gang-raped God yourself.
Pretty silly, eh?
And yet, it is the core belief of the Christian Church.
"Pretty silly" indeed, for you version "isn't anywere in the Bible" LOL,
that's why you couldn't "splice in" any quotes in support.
You are in over your head NoSpam, you might as well just post to atheist
NGs, where they will believe anything you say, as long as it is about what
things are not, no authoritative references needed. I will post you over to
them

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